My relationship with the ONA is that I was a part of
the 3.0 experiment which ultimately failed. I was really new and green, and
made a critical mistake in how I viewed the ONA. Lacking personal, practical,
Sinister experience cause me to become mindfucked by the whole thing and I
tripped and fell over my own ego.
When talking about the Sinister there’s one name that
always comes up: Order of Nine Angles (ONA). What is your relationship with
this organization, and how do you view its role as part of the contemporary
sinister culture?
If I have adopted some of the
ONA symbolism and terminology mostly because it’s Magian-free, but as far
as its manipulative tactics is concerned, I don’t feel myself the pawn to serve
its agenda. It is the ONA symbols and terms which serve my quest rather than
vice versa. Yet on a certain level beyond the problem between individual and
folk, I find some of my ideas as almost identical with those of the ONA. After
all, I am also a psychopath who makes my way through the chaos of normality,
and uses any manipulative approaches to achieve my purposes.
One should also
consider the fact that the ONA myth was created by two men only, and though I
do not underestimate the power of that myth, I think that what sorcerers have
established other sorcerers may abrogate. Moreover, though Magian-free, the ONA
symbolism is based on some obscure tradition which should be profoundly
investigated instead of being taken in trust. By investigating and working with the Dark Gods I have arrived
with some of them to the dawn of human civilization, and I dare to say they
have little to do with any Sanskrit, or Hindu sources as deemed by some who
should know better. Not only weren’t the Aryans the first and genuine bringers
of human civilization but certain representatives of that race were also
originators of what was termed by Spengler as ‘Magian’ and used by the ONA to
term mostly the Near East Judeo-Christian prophetic ethos. In fact the Magi
were the Median priesthood where the prophet Zoroaster derived from and created
the first moralist dualistic doctrine, later to serve as the basis for the
spiritual plague spread by the subhuman
Abrahamic religions. The Median people as well as their successors the Persians
were of the Iranian branch of the Aryan/Indo-European race. It was Cyrus the Great (600 - 530 BCE), an Aryan ruler, who tolerated the renewal of the
barbarous Hebrew monotheism in his empire and was the only non-Jew regarded as
“Messiah”.
It was my inherent dislike of and sabotage against the Qabalah, that
made me search for another, Magian-free system of classification for my magical
experience, and thus I discovered the ONA’s Tree of Wyrd. For me the qabalistic
tradition is a crude distortion of the genuine Ancient Orient lore. While I
agree with the ONA that “the use of
qabalistic/Hebrew names, images/symbols aids this distortion and thus enhances
the power of the Nazarene and the ‘old Aeon’ values/power structures”, I
find ridiculous and demagogical the assertion that “the same applies to the use of
‘Egyptian/Sumerian ‘ etc. symbols/images/words. Those who still use such
symbols/images/words are not yet free from Nazarene indoctrination/unconscious
influences.” However, a more
profound research into the names of the ONA’s Dark Gods shows that Karu
Samsu means “Harbor of the Sun” in Akkadian, that Abatu is “to destroy” in the
same language, that Azanigin is a “reservoir of water” (or sperm) in Sumerian,
that Shugara is a “turban” in the same language, that Bin Anath is “the
daughter of Anath” in Egyptian etc. That’s one of the reasons I do not regard
the ONA as the authority to tell me what I am to use and what I am not to use.
I do not obey any authorities.
***
Well-wisher. I think they
had some good ideas. I think they opened some doors. They had an influential
role in breaking the reliance on a well-known model and delivered an option for
contemporary occultism to go back to some important roots. They've become
preachy, churchy, touchy though and I think they need to reassess the misguided
notion that they own/control the Sinister and its access points. They seem to
think because they were conduits for greater forces that they can control who
and how they are used. Which is nonsense. Utter RHP nonsense. It bodes a
decline for that form to go against Nature's will.
***
I have not interacted
much with others in an organised way, I have read the works of ONA, though not
all, and I find some of their vein very useful and interesting. There is too
much posturing and ego within these forums for me. I prefer to obtain my
sinister understanding more organically.
***
ONA occupies a role as a
form that allows a particularly framed experience of the Sinister to be
manifested. It has darker corners than other organizations and promotes the
darker alchemy necessary for the individual to grow as a balanced being. It is
a necessary evil. Beautifully twisted and grotesque. I have no relationship
with this organization but it was extremely formative in who I have become.
***
Its role is fundamental when one comes to need a
deeper understanding of the Sinister and magick and other things that these
imply, especially when one feels that qabalah based systems like thelema and
others are somewhat alien to him or her, or that the armchair satanism of CoS
et similia will take you nowhere if you seek real Change through Satanism and
the Sinister. When I came to be aware of the ONA back in '93-'94 ev, initially
through some BM publications and material from OJB/FL, OSV/TBO etc., I immediately
felt from their writings (as well as those from the mentioned occult groups)
that there was something different there, some real essence behind, something
primeval but even modern and futuristic at the same time in respect to all
other occult groups and currents, I found some similarities with things I was
doing by myself at the time leaving behind old influences, and so many views
and ideas that matched mine, thus I felt strongly attracted by the ONA and
started to search for more about it, discovering many aspects that only
increased my interest, especially noticing a sort of Nature Magick as a huge
aspect of their Tradition, I liked its pagan approach devoid of the modern
romanticism, morality and softness, thus its bringing back sorcery to its real
meaning. I felt the ONA was somewhat there to bring those with a certain sense
of things back to where our (human, specifically Europeans) path of evolution
had been interrupted by the nazarene/magian distortion, offering a system which
could do this by destroying or changing one's artificial ego projections, and
"awareness" of reality, I was in the process already, but the ONA
surely helped to speed it up. I was deeply impressed and influenced by CB's
writings and Art (Sinister Tarot and music too), no other organization ever
came out with such a combination of so insightful writings, powerful set of
rites and Arts before the ONA, apart the Temple Of THEM which developed and is
developing these and other aspects further.
I still miss to experience the 7FW
fully, but the things I have experimented with inspired by it through the years
helped me to improve quite much on many aspects. With time I also started to
doubt about certain aspects of the ONA, its history and the Sinister Tradition
as handed down by AL, but my researches also took me to see there's a truth and
links with the past and the ancient Mysteries behind it, thus an essence
transcending time and human influence and its forms. My relationship with the
organization itself has not been direct, I've had contact with some people who
was closer to some key figures of it, from which I obtained most of the ONA
material I have, like VF of Ansuz Transmissions/Vanargandr mainly. Had some
contact more recently with some people through THEM's forums, and the Temple Of
THEM was clearly my main and closer ONA contact the past recent couple of years
or so.
***
As to my relationship
with the ONA, I have several thoughts. I have never had direct contact (that I
am aware of) with the ’Old Guard.’ I have been a member of 2 pseudo-Satanic
societies, the CoS and the ToS. They are bullshit. LaVey had some energy in the
origination days of the CoS, but lost it precisely because of his adoration of
his own ego. Whatever power he had, left him, because his conscious self was
not the source of that power. Aquino is a pseudo-intellectual piece of shit and
general poseur (and those are his good points). His only virtue lay in studying Machiavelli and “gaining control
of the means of communication”. He was the editor of The Cloven Hoof (the CoS house publication), and LaVey was not
astute enough to recognize the viper he housed in his bosom. LaVey continued to give Aquino that avenue of
control, which was the main way non-SanFrancisco members “related” to that
organization. Aquino used that to full effect when LaVey announced – surprise! – that the (meaningless)
degrees were “for sale.” (Like they hadn’t been all along…) These
disenchantments (literally) have left deep marks in me. I always test things
for myself, and assume that I’m being sold a “bill of goods.” Does that mean
there’s no truth to be found? Of course not…
I long ago ceased
being any kind of a ’true believer’, and I commend the ”path of un-belief” to
all who wish to follow the Left Hand Path. In reading ONA material, did I sense
deception? Of course! What else should I expect from the Blackest of the Black?
The history of the Dark Gods was cleverly embellished, and often simply
invented. Does that mean that the Dark
Ones don’t exist? Well, go into chamber and find out. They’re there, whatever
they are. They are not ’self’, nor are they self-delusion. They’re real… as
real as this keyboard I’m typing on. Do they only relate to us through Anton
Long (or Anton LaVey, or whoever)? I doubt they really even know who any of
“US” are. The same way I can be amazed
at the behavior of a wild animal which approaches me, unafraid, and seems to
relate to me, I believe THEY feel about me when I approach them in chamber. I
elevate my mind, they “see” me, and note this strange little creature intruding
into their space. And often they’ll give me a “treat!” Like I said, “ego” is
bullshit. Man is not important; we must “overcome ourselves.” I find the ONA
corpus of literature to be the most true to what I find in Black Magick. I also find the TOTBL to be Daemonically
inspired, although the Liber Falxifer
material is less-than-moving to me
***
My relationship with the ONA is that I was a part of
the 3.0 experiment which ultimately failed. I was really new and green, and
made a critical mistake in how I viewed the ONA. Lacking personal, practical,
Sinister experience cause me to become mindfucked by the whole thing and I
tripped and fell over my own ego.
What the whole experience did do was teach me that I
needed to actually cross my own mental boundaries and see what holds up. It
taught me that I needed to realize the line is there is no real line.
I view the ONA and all of its writings like one of
those pictures you have to de-focus your eyes to see what the picture actually
is. Transgression is what causes the eyes to de-focus and see the picture. Once
you do, you should realize that all anyone else is doing in regards to writing
as a Niner is saying what they see when their eyes de-focused.
At this point in time, I find myself resonating more
heavily with Niners but haven't taken the leap of labeling my work ONA. I feel
like my memes spread faster and better under the 'Independent Satanist' banner.
One thing that once separated ONA from its
contemporaries, such as Church of Satan and Temple of Set, was that ONA had a
distinct and delineated Cause; the disruption and destruction of the
whole Magian edifice, and the creation of an entirely new kind of civilization,
The Galactic Imperium. Does your conception of the Sinister include a Cause?
In other words, something that goes beyond your everyday, human, concerns, and
which might, in fact, be something that you won’t see come into fruition in
your lifetime.
My own magical cause or quest
stands above any folk’s cause. Any cause which insist on my duty to some
collective body is communistic in nature. (Marxism being the atheistic form of
the Magian.) Only when satisfied along my own quest could I be of use to my
fellows In Sinister Solidarity (ISS). The idea of Galactic Imperium reminds me
of that distorted vision of the Magian cinema industry about the expansion of
the human civilization in the Outer Space expressed via the Star Wars production. This is exactly
what the Magian project unto the future – their infantile good vs evil dualism
presented in a galactic scale. In fact mastering the Outer Space would mean
leaving humanity behind. The interplanetary vacuum (not to speak about the
interstellar vacuum), won’t leave the human brain unchanged. However trained to
persist in its mundane consciousness (assumed as the norm), the human astronaut
will lose control there. He, or she will need some trans-human attunement which
the present human-centric civilization is not able to provide. The mundane
humanity is not predestined to live amongst the stars. It’s a paradox indeed that all the highly
developed technology is as if designated to serve the mundane only. Again, my
personal quest or cause of attaining to a lasting trans-human awareness while
still alive, stands above any collective cause. I could stay In Sinister
Solidarity only with those who have become aware of the futility of any human
cause and seek to become something other and better than human. This staying
ISS with fellow-minded folks could form the basis for a new sentient race but
it wouldn’t be possible until everybody has been satisfied enough along one’s
individual quest.
***
Yes.
***
Yes, the introduction of a
strain of occultism through the cultus of THEM that offers and encourages a
re-orientation of the occult through our looking-glass. We do not want world
domination or to own the stage, that could never happen. What does happen when
a particular goup tries to play God is that it builds a powerful backlash that
eventually gives rise to a particular counter-form, so to seed this approach
and attitude can be used as cultural alchemy – but the forms used in that
alchemy are almost always destroyed to make way for a third form that transpires
in the struggle of the other two. This in mind, we seek to expand our cult and
form a culture around a new Illuminati that functions on THEM's principles.
With enough Others joining the current and those forces being then expressed by
them in their own ways, the Temple asa movement toward evolution of
consciousness keeps growing.
But we understand our role in Nature's Work. We
serve Her and her goals. We will expire in thirty years, long enough we think
to set a number of balls rolling, tend a crop to bountiful harvest to give rise
to the next stage of our thought form and individualosophies and will then
disappear back into the aether, gracefully stepping aside to let the new grow
and prosper. It's not glamourous, it's not glorious, it’s an acceptance and
Love for THEM. A cold steely commitment
to forces bigger than us.
***
Yes, the evolution of
humanity and the eradication of the sole dominance of certain ideas such as
God. The Temple of THEM has gradually moved away from Satanism in order to be
even further from the Church's grasp – understanding that replication of its
roots is not progress. By sole dominance is meant that we are trying to change
the pathways and functions of the brain – by seeing if we can – and if we can –
to evolve. THEM has a charter of 30 years. It began in 2006 and will continue
to 2036. In this time we wish to create a new type of illuminati and to
understand everything humanly possible about forms. This duration will go some
way toward establishing a new type of thought which progress in achieving we
will leave behind as a legacy to others. This cause if you like involves
listening to THEM, speaking through THEM, and trying to gestate forms that will
destroy the foundations of the magic that holds religion and certain other
types of ideation in place.
***
I am not so arrogant
as to believe I can push around dark gods, or single handedly bring about a new
aeon of civilization. I endeavour to change those around me, to try to live my
life open to the sinister under current of things, to show people how to behave
in a manner befitting a civilization able to evolve. For sadly we are all in
this together, and the fierce anger of a few hundred is nothing in the face of
the ignorance of billions.
***
The concerns of our
daily life are things that are made pass for the most important while they
should be just marginal aspects in our life, they are there to distract us and
steal time, attention, focus and dedication from what is truly meaningful in
and of life, to avoid that we think and become aware and remember what we
should be or seek to be. The magian machine has constructed in the human mind
like infinite screens projecting illusions made pass for reality before our
eyes, and people believe what they see, and what they are told and educated to
see as important, the meaning of life etc. Be it religion, money, politics,
soccer, technology, individualism/self-importance, democracy, progress, etc.
The disruption of this state of things is one of the Causes of the ONA, of the
Temple Of THEM and other Sinister groups, and it is surely one aspect that
differentiates them from CoS, ToS, OTO, GD etc. which are (willingly or not)
just arms of that magian mechanism devoid of even the slightest numinousness.
My conception of the Sinister surely includes a Cause, and what you mentioned
in your question describes it quite well. Those who are making efforts for this
cause today won't be able to see the outcome, whatever form it will maifest
through, not even the beginning of it I fear. But the few signs of Change in
few people today may become a whole civilization tomorrow, whatever tomorrow
may mean here in terms of centuries. Alchemy works slow, in Aeonic terms
especially, and considering where we are starting from.
***
Yes. I also seek to destroy what I see as a broken
machine the majority of humanity has become trapped in. Not for any other
reason than the experience of making this attempt makes me discover more about
myself in the process.
Temple of THEM is an organization all of you are some way
connected to, but what made you interested in THEM in the first place? What
made it stand out from all the other similar groups?
I think the Temple of THEM is a network rather than an
organization. The organization presupposes some structure, and the structure –
some form. The Temple of THEM is about the essence, not about the form. The
Sinister cannot be limited to certain forms and styles. Yet its essence should
be recognizable for those of THEM. Again, the Sinister is that part of the Self
which is directly aware of the Web of Wyrd – the mysterious web of energy
currents, which builds up what our Dexter (the ego-pole) perceives and
interprets it as consensus reality. The network of the Temple of THEM is not
centralized and structures chaotically not unlike the Web of Wyrd. What makes
me One of THEM is my staying ISS with the others, whom I have chosen to feel
empathic with, and to work with.
***
I feel that I am where I
belong to be – home.
***
I don't think there are any
similar groups. THEM is like Lovecraft on steroids. It's a mad mix of fantasy
and reality that gnaws at you, wraps you in its coils and hypnotises you. It's
got some weird allure I can't really explain. It came from nowhere and nothing
and look at it now. I don't know if it’s the artwork, the writing, the emotion,
the romanticism or something Other. The Temple of THEM has something I can't
quite put my finger on, but it excites me, it fills me with suspense, it gives
me a strange sense of conifidence that someone somewhere knows what is going
on. They might appear as mad as two snakes rubbed back to back but there is a
startling clarity of purpose that binds its sprawling mass together and its
dare I say it, fun to be involved with it. I dont care if it's some big joke,
some online story or takes parts and pieces of all of their experience to speak
as One; you get the sense that this is something different from all those other
groups. You can just feel it. I think that is down to genuine esoteric
knowledge or grasping for it and a real connection with all the things they
talk about. I find it hard not to believe in the world of forces and forms as
Ryan et al describe and see it the way they do. It's oddly exciting.
***
The members.
***
It is the form by which I
express the purpose of my life.
***
I came across some
Temple Of THEM's writings via the ONA while going through some of their
internet links. I started to read some material from Mvimaedivm and other
internet sources and to purchase items from TBGS which increased my interest
quite much. What I've found of interest immediately was how THEM seemed to
develop and deepen certain aspects of the ONA Tradition, and try to understand
Form and human psyche at deeper levels, being at the same time still a
Subversive and Heretic force. I thought it to be the only branch of the
Sinister doing that, which is also what the ONA seemed to expect from those
walking its path after all. I also found – as with the ONA earlier – many
topics dealt with which I already had an interest in or experimented with in
some way, and other aspects I resonate with or similar experiences. I
appreciated a lot its being somewhat formless yet using many forms, THEM's
studies cover from archaeology to psychology, quantum physics to mythology,
from Nazism to Anarchy, various artistic forms, from sorcery to NWO
conspiracies, from direct action to introvert thoughtful practices, always
analyzing even contradictory sides of everything. All of this was enough to
have an interest and to see THEM as a standing out entity and carrier of
certain Forces. Some time later I came to contact THEM directly addressed there
by an ONA key figure of the past and this slowly became something more,
starting to collaborate on some things, which became more and more with time.
***
Ryan. I have known him for awhile and he wrote an
essay called The Greatest Heresy about Baphomet that caught my attention. Over
the years and through interaction with him I have realized that we have similar
aims.
